Ultra Or Trail Runner

You can run a marathon, you love the trails, and yet “ultra” still feels like a club you have to earn your way into. We get it, and we go straight at the question that trips up so many runners: do you have to race to be an ultrarunner, or can you simply train beyond 26.2 miles and claim the identity on your own terms? We share where we land, what the definition actually says, and why belonging in the ultra world has far more to do with curiosity and consistency than pace or bravado. 

We also pull back the curtain on the unglamorous parts of ultra training that make the difference on the day. Becky updates her UTMB prep, from managing Achilles and knee issues to navigating tapering tension and a run of poor sleep. We talk about “attention to detail” in a way that is practical, not preachy: following physio advice, staying on top of rehab and mobility, warming up properly, and building simple systems that stop small problems becoming race-ending ones. If you have ever told yourself you will do the strength work tomorrow, this will sound familiar. 

Then we get nerdy about the stuff that wins minutes and saves hours: checkpoint routines, cut-offs, grab-bag efficiency, kit flat lays, and fuelling cards that tell you what to eat and when. We share a few laughs too, including the medal debate and the kind of kit mistakes you only make once, unless you are us. Along the way we celebrate big moments in the sport, including inspiring midlife performances and UK ultra race results, and we answer listener questions about taking the leap from road marathons to a first 50k. 

If you are standing on the edge wondering whether you belong, press play and come and run with us. Subscribe, share the episode with a mate who is ultra-curious, and please leave a review so more trail runners can find the show.

Get In Touch

Got a story about a trail friendship, or a question for us? We'd love to hear it — email us at stillrunningstrong@gmail.com, or find us on Instagram and Facebook.

Still Running Strong is for general interest and entertainment only. We share our own personal experiences, not professional medical, nutritional, or training advice. Always consult a qualified professional before making changes to your training, diet, or health.

Transcript

Welcome And Listener Thanks

Becky 0:07

Hello, I'm Becky and welcome to this, the second episode of Still Running Strong.

Dawn 0:12

Hi, I'm Dawn. Firstly, just want to say a big thank you to everybody that's downloaded and listened to our podcast, and also for the lovely emails, Instagram messages and support. It's been really, really overwhelming.

Becky 0:27

Um yeah, we're really delighted that we've got listeners as far as flung as Australia and Canada and America. So amazing.

Dawn 0:33

Yeah, thrilled.

Becky 0:34

Right, today, Dawn, we've got more trail running chat, we've got more news that we've spotted. And uh later on our little discussion today is going to be to race or not, do you have to be in a race or regularly entering races to be ultra runners?

Dawn 0:51

Well, I'm looking forward to that. That'll be interesting. Because I'm sure we'll have probably differing views. Um be the same view. I don't know. Well, we'll find out. We'll find out because we don't know. We haven't discussed this.

Becky's UTMB Prep And Sleep

Dawn 1:03

Um so, Becky, what have you been up to s over this last week?

Becky 1:07

Well, you know, still on the uh UTMB training, um, well, actually I say that, but the training has really, really, really levelled off. Um, I mean, this weather is gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. But as a I hate this term, but as a stay-at-home mum, one of the sort of luxuries, if you like, is not having to get up and out of bed and do the school runs and get those two 12-year-olds out the door by seven o'clock. So I'm although I'm waking up early because it's bloody menopause makes you um wake up early. I'm still lying in bed contemplating the world, having my cup of tea, and then it's too hot to take the dogs out. So I'm tending to do my runs or walks in the evening. I got a nice 10k um in the bag, but that's a dog issue of just taking one dog, not the one that runs off and chases everything. So I've got that done. I did some crossfit, um, nice light session, actually. It was it was good. And injury-wise, I'm really pleased to say that the acupuncture I had on my Achilles has really, really sorted out. Right.

Dawn 2:14

So that's it. Well, you showed me it's gone down.

Becky 2:16

It's really gone down. So I've been doing this thing of not um not wearing, but you know, I've padded around the house barefoot. I'm not allowed to, I have to wear like those sort of platform um flip-flops. So I've been wearing those and a bit more acupuncture on my knees, there's always one part of me that's falling apart, so my left knee was hurting as well. So that's a bit of tendinopathy there. So she's treated that.

Dawn 2:38

And did you get the inserts?

Becky 2:40

I did get the inserts.

Dawn 2:42

Are they working?

Becky 2:42

They've made me taller. Right. So I'm actually lofting it around. I reckon I've gone to five foot six. Right. So Ernie Wise used to wear lifts in his shoes.

Dawn 2:52

Apparently. Because they did say you put put lifts in, so I've stacked them up.

Becky 2:56

I've put six in each shoe.

Dawn 2:58

I mean, as you know, I'm so tall, I don't need that.

Becky 3:01

So you know what the idea is there is that your heel doesn't drop down. Yeah. So I know I don't want to think about it because if I'm going up all these mountains, I don't want to feel like I've got to go on a tiptoe and have my foot at some awkward angle running up the hill, that's not gonna work. Don't do it, like you said, running up the hill. Oh yeah, will you be?

Dawn 3:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Becky 3:21

Um, so that is me doing what you said last week was attention to detail. Yeah. Don't go and spend 80 quid at the physio and then ignore what they've told you to do.

Dawn 3:32

Yeah, which was really interesting because me and Becky did a run last week and we were running along and I was saying, so what did the physio say to you? What should you do? Oh, well, I should get inserts for my shoes. And I said, Oh, and did you get them? No.

Becky 3:44

All it was was one click on Amazon. Well, actually, obviously I then got lost down the heel raises aisle and had bought six different pairs. Right. But then I've got quite a lot of shoes. Yeah. So they like it. I do think I look a bit taller. Good. Uh so that's good. Now, the only bad thing, Dawn, the only very bad thing, and it's let's not get stressed, I'm not sleeping very well. I can't get off to sleep. Um, magnesium tablet. Somebody told me to try L-thionine. Uh you know, it's not so I'm not gonna get anxious about it because the more one gets anxious about sleep, you don't sleep. But I do need to go with a load of sleep in the bag. I've always remembered my friend before she had kids said, I'm gonna just sleep loads, so I've got everything in the sleep bank. I don't think it works like that.

Dawn 4:27

No, but it can be great for you at this point because it's helping your body recover. But like you say, the more we worry about it, the less we sleep.

Becky 4:34

It does. My aura ring says I should get between seven and nine hours a night. I'm getting six.

Dawn 4:39

Right. So you're not it's not massively down, but it's not where you want to be.

Becky 4:44

No, it's not good. So um, so I've got where are we? What with 3rd of August? So uh 25 days. 25 days, so just over three weeks. Yeah, and I've had a nice chat with my coach, and I've talked about uh something that I did for UTS, which was because it's a timed race, and because I've got to get in and out of those checkpoints by a certain time. So sometimes people make the mistake of they get to the checkpoint and they think, right, I've made it. You've got to get out the checkpoint. Tell me, what are you like in checkpoints? Do you faff? I think you know the answer to that. Actually, I've got better at it. Right. And what I like to do, I mean, if there's like a pebble in my shoe, or I'm a great one for just going for a wee anywhere, but actually on the Alps it there isn't, it's gonna be busier. So lose stop, fiddle around with water bottles, and it always looks dodgy because there's always that table out the back that's covered in white powder where everyone's pouring certain brands of uh drink into their bottles. So I, you know, I refuel, I stock up. I I'm gonna say that I'm quite good now. My first race, I think my total time spent in rest stops was four hours.

Dawn 5:56

Yeah. It's amazing how quick it adds up. I I was listening to a podcast the other day of somebody and they were talking about when they actually, it was a long race. I can't think which I think it was a 200 mile race, and they were talking about how much time added up. And if they had rehearsed their checkpoints, what they were going to do, how quick they could fill their bottles and put them in, and how what they're doing.

Becky 6:15

Yeah, I mean, when I when I did the A100, you know, that's that centurion race that goes in and out of Goring. So you're in the village hall and you keep coming back to the village hall, so you can have a big bag of stuff. Oh, right. They actually came over to me and said, We think you should leave. Really? You've been in here for too long. Yeah. I don't think they meant the race generally. I think they just meant, you know, you've been here quite a long time. So in answer to but for a 62k, last week I was calling it 64k at 62k. I like to think I'll be quick. I mean, some races I've bypassed the checkpoint if it's uh on a second time I did race to the stones, you just you know, the first one's 9k or something. Um so I've told my coach I'm gonna have a grab bag, I'm running through, grabbing some bits and bobs.

Dawn 7:01

Um how far into the race will you have a grab bag?

Becky 7:04

So the fur no, I don't have any drop bags. Oh, sorry. No, not drop bags. No, I literally have a bag. Oh right. Yeah, I'm gonna have a bag with me. You can either take a plastic bag, we can take whatever you like, but I thought I'd take you know one of those little net bags that you get the elastic bands in for doing weighted work banded workouts.

Dawn 7:22

Oh yes, yeah.

Becky 7:22

So that's a perfect one because I thought I can I don't want things to get sweaty, so I can hook that onto my bag, chuck a load of things in there straight through and out. That's the plan, Dawn, anyway. Right, okay. So so but in terms of other prep, uh it's been on the to-do list and I need to actually get round to doing it, is laying out all my kit. Uh, like every other runner, uh ultra runner, I'll take what's called a flat lay photo. So it's all laid out.

Dawn 7:47

Will you put your food in that as well?

Becky 7:49

Yeah, yeah, I've done so food wise, I've chosen a brand, I can't remember what they're called now. It's the ones that did the um rhubarb and custard, I think they're called tocker or something, rhubarb and custard gels, and I've got some flat jacks. But I've I'm um I'm I'm gonna I think there's gonna be more food for me to pick up. But yeah, I've got my I know what I've got myself, and then they'll be what UTMB have. And I'm also I'm doing my little cards, so I was interrupted myself. I did the little cards for my UTS race that had the timings on them, so getting in and out the checkpoints, so it'll tell me what time I've got to be, so like how many hours into the race, not what time of day, but how many hours into the race I've got to be at the first checkpoint at the second and etc.

Dawn 8:32

And you need that, don't you, when you've got cutoffs new.

Becky 8:35

Well, it's like they do it for marathons now. So when I first did a marathon, I wrote all the times on a piece of paper and stuck it to a wristband. Because I thought if I look at my watch and it says two hours 17, I thought, well, I I need to know where I'm supposed to be, mile 13, mile 14. So, because I was going for target time. So I'm doing that and I'm doing it for 13 and a half hours and 14 and a half hours, which is the cutoff. And it might be that I'm way ahead of that. It might be that I'm panicking my ass off thinking I'm just about but I need to have that on there.

Dawn 9:05

You need to know.

Becky 9:06

And then on the other side of the card, some inspiring words that I will say, you know, shift your ass, keep going. Not that you got this, because that drives me nuts. You got this. Yeah. Um, and then the food, I'm gonna have a food card as well that basically tells me in your first hour, you need to eat one pastel, one tiny square of flapjack, you know, and something else.

Dawn 9:28

Right, so that's the plan, Dawn. That's the plan. I mean, all your training's done, your strength work's done.

Becky 9:34

Yeah, and you know you called it last week. You said, what did you call it? Uh, tapering tantrums. It is that it's almost tapering tension.

Dawn 9:43

Yeah. And that that is where I love when I work with clients. It's about we have a very simplistic sometimes they have a whiteboard with the jobs they've got to do and focus them only, focus on one job at a time, like getting their mandatory kit out, doing their flat lay, so that they don't keep dashing between things. And then you think you've got loads to do, and actually, you know, you've got to remember how experienced you are. You have to loads of races. You've done this and you've got to the start line, apart from the time you forgot your bottles. Time.

Becky 10:12

I had everything. Emma reminded me that I did it. Right. I did it the next race, Don. Right.

Dawn 10:17

Yeah.

Becky 10:18

After the dark.

Dawn 10:19

Because I bet you thought to yourself, don't forget your bottles.

Becky 10:21

Again, what happened was it was the lap, you know, that one in Minderbury.

Dawn 10:25

Yeah.

Becky 10:25

And we were staying in a little cottage, and I'd put these bottles um in the bottom of the fridge, so they were ready to go and cold. But because it was such an incredibly hot day, I had two you know, those really tiny bottles you can get. I had those as well. So I had the sense that you had that that I had my water bottles, and it was this realisation at in the start at like six o'clock in the morning, and I just thought, oh god. And so I managed to get hold of Emma and she met me at the first kilometre.

unknown 10:51

Oh my goodness.

Becky 10:51

I mean, we'd think I'd learn two consecutive races, I forgot my water bottles.

Dawn 10:56

So I'm gonna have to message you beforehand and say, I know have you got them. So I think you're yeah, you're doing amazing, and I'm loving the updates as we're going getting closer to the race. And how

Dawn's Rehab Wake Up Call

Dawn 11:05

about you? What have you been up to this week? So, well, I started off great last week with you know, getting everything done and getting my runs done. I've had a really busy week with everything, and I think also the podcast launch was a busy time, you know. We're we're not used to all the technology behind it, and all, you know, we're learning as we're going. So there was a lot of work to do, um, and just a busy, stressful life, as any of us do. And the first thing that slipped was my strength workouts and then my rehab. How many strength workouts do you do? I do two to three a week. Right. Okay. But because I've had this long history of injuries and everything, and the one thing I've realised since I'm at this age, I can't go a few days without doing daily rehab and mobility for. And do you really stick are you really conscientious in your? I had been because I just keep getting injured. And since And what is your rehab? What do you do? It's there's various bits. Lucy's written it all for me. It's mainly to do with my ankle, it's strength work for my glutes, because I've got like it's always my left side, and don't have problems on my right side. So it's just there's various different exercises that she gives me to do. It's about 10 minutes standing on one leg, doing all these different things, balancing, various things. It's all the little things that we're doing. And you don't, but I have got really good at doing it, and it was paying dividends, and I was really feeling how great I was running. So anyway, all this week everything slipped. I got really busy and it just I stopped because it was like, you know, look after elderly parents, all the normal stuff. And I went out for my run yesterday and I started. And the other thing I did, because I was tight on time, normally I would walk for 10 minutes before I start running. My body needs that. Do you? Yeah. Um and I didn't, I just started running, and within the first half a K, it was like, what's wrong? This feels straight away. I felt the tightening down my left leg, my lower back started hurting hurting. IT band kicked in straight away, and I was thinking, and I was having quite severe pain at the side of my knee, and I thought, I'm gonna have to go back. I thought, no, just slowly.

Becky 13:11

Sometimes I think you've got to sort of sort of, you know, unwind into a run. Yeah. Almost.

Dawn 13:16

And if you've got pain, that's Yeah. So I just thought, right, walk a bit, and then I jogged a bit, I had to keep stopping and stretching straight away. It's all tightened back up. I can feel it even today. But it was actually by the end of it, it felt like the most positive run because it kept me, it reminded me of really what is important. And it's all the things I talk to my clients about. Attention to detail matters. You know, when you get to race day, it does they don't care if you've done what you last long rate, it's that attention to detail. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. I have all those little things. So today I've done my strength work and I've done my rehab, and yeah, I'm gonna.

Becky 13:56

Whereas I've got day 692 that I haven't done any yoga.

Dawn 14:01

You were doing something the other day when I messaged you and you said I wouldn't have to be a little bit more.

Becky 14:04

Oh, what's it called? So it's on Les Mills, which isn't I always think it sounds like a 70s northern comedian, doesn't it, Les Mills? Um Body Balance. Oh. And when I once did it, that you know, you go into that website, I pay for it, and there's like 642 different glasses just in body balance, isn't it? And I did one, I thought, oh, this is brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I'm gonna do this every day. That was four months ago.

Dawn 14:27

Yeah.

Becky 14:28

So but I've got that wobble board that you told me to go with.

Dawn 14:32

Oh right, we've gonna have to have a go at that while I'm here today.

Becky 14:34

I might have to put it on the Insta. Well, I'll I'll have a go and we'll stick me trying to do it.

Dawn 14:38

I'll try and persuade her to video it.

Becky 14:41

Absolutely impossible. I mean it's uh it's impossible. I can't get it to balance at all.

Dawn 14:46

We'll have a go, because that should be entertaining.

Becky 14:48

That would be entertaining.

Dawn 14:49

Right. You're yeah, it's just it's interesting. Why we don't do the things we say we're going to do, even though they know they benefit us. That's human nature. Another episode we'll talk about the psychology behind that, which is quite interesting.

Becky 15:02

Is it called having kids? No. Oh.

unknown 15:06

Right.

Becky 15:08

I thought I could hide behind that. And I'm I'm pretty sure I'm ADHD, so I jump between I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna do that. Pretty sure. Yeah. Dawn is rolling her eyes. Right, let's have a look at what's caught our eye in the news this week, Dawn.

Headlines From The Ultra World

Dawn 15:23

Right, so I mean we had the very sad news of the um climbers in Pakistan on Broad Peak. That was awful, real tragedy, and you know, the mountaineering community will be devastated by it, so that's a real tragedy.

Becky 15:38

I mean that the mountaineering is I that was sort of my route into Ultras, and the guy who I used to go mountaineering with, he you know, he said it's it is it's not part that you don't have to expect it, but it is quite a you're not gonna die falling off your yoga mat, are you? It's it's it's quite a extreme sport.

Dawn 15:58

Tragedy in these Yeah. These are very experienced people as well.

Becky 16:03

The ladies and but more positively, we had Sophie Grant, the New Zealand ultrarunner, who was 42, I think, so um big up for the midlife women runners. She completed her 2,000 kilometre run across the Alps. Um, and apparently this beat the men's and women's existing records. But do you know, Don, what I really loved about this is that she didn't go out for this to be an FKT, which is a thing called a fastest known time. They are getting well, they're not really they're pretty much just for the very top runners, obviously, because they're gonna get the fastest known times. Um but it's it's become a bit of a thing in the last few years. But um she said she just did it for the adventure and the experience and didn't do it for the record and just kept going, and then look what happened. So I almost don't want them to say, and it's the new record. It's just like this woman just went, she just ran 20,000 kilometres.

Dawn 16:58

I this I watched her being interviewed on BBC News, which it was great to see that our sport is hitting the news. Yes, I know. I saw that. I love that, and just there was something about her that I just thought the way she's gonna be so inspiring. She said, you know, if other women and young girls see you doing these things, it makes them think maybe they can do these things. And I just loved the way it was wasn't about the record for her. No. That meant that I thought was really good. But yeah, so amazing. Really brilliant.

Becky 17:24

And then last weekend we had the very, very popular Lakeland 50 miler and 100 miler, one of the races dawn in the UK that is a ballot. So it's funny, isn't it? Why are some races ballot and really hard to get into? And uh, and you know, we talked about this with me and my Running Stones with the UTMB last week. Um, and some races are easier to get into. You don't have to, I mean do they restrict the numbers? Don't know, we can talk about that longer. That's another thing.

Dawn 17:55

I don't really know the answer.

Becky 17:57

Um so the uh the 50 miler race is always the more popular one. I've done it. Have you done it, Dolph? No, I loved it. Did I love it? I don't know. I was there the year you did it. I tell you I liked it. There's no cutoff, and my coach was doing the 100 miler, and the 100 miler starts before, so they come through the same route and join the 50 50 mile route. And I was sort of chatting to her along the way during the night, and she said, Well, you could go and try and run this a bit. But it was it was just it's some races I find I go in and I relax a bit. Yeah. And sometimes it's a bit more racing. Anyway, we had um we had there were 560 women finished that 50 mileer. That's a lot. That's a lot of women. So there were 825 men. So there's Yeah, and it's growing. It's growing. The the gap between the participation between women and men is getting smaller, and hopefully that continues. The 100 miler, the um whilst the overall race was won by Mark Derbyshire, which race in the UK isn't won by Mark Derbyshire, discuss. Um, but Anna Troop, who uh actually lives near me, she's in her 50s and she won the 100 miler, came 24th overall. So fantastic.

Dawn 19:11

That's amaz it. Just goes to show age isn't a barrier with these things.

Becky 19:14

And the lady who came second, a Dutch lady, was in her 40s.

Dawn 19:18

Wow.

Becky 19:18

So the first and second women in the Hundred Mile are midlife runners. So that's fantastic.

Dawn 19:24

She's brilliant. Um, so yeah, we're we're really pleased to report that. Well, and hats off to anyone who ran the race that we don't know about. We'd love to hear your stories with things like your own races, so let us know. Um very well done to anyone else in the community. A big shout out to Katriona, uh, a lady that we know via running who did an amazing job in the 100. So we're gonna. I thought she did the bit, no, she did the five. No, she did the 100.

Becky 19:52

Or is that the first time she's done it?

Dawn 19:54

Yeah.

Becky 19:54

Yeah. I it's on my list, so my plan. Oh, well, we can talk about who wants to know what my plans are for next year.

Dawn 20:01

Yeah, you have plans already.

Becky 20:04

Yeah. Do you? Oh god, I always book these right. Right, let's well, we're talking about this now. Right, okay.

Do You Have To Race

Becky 20:09

So, Dawn, I'm gonna ask you, do you need to be, do you think well, first of all, I'm gonna ask for you generally, but then also ultrarunners generally, do you think you have to race to be an ultrarunner?

Dawn 20:22

Personally, no, I don't think so. And I think about it, if you think of the definition of an ultrarunner, an ultra is anything over 26.2 miles, and a runner is somebody who runs whatever pace that is, and runs and walks.

Becky 20:36

So an ultrarunner by definition isn't it Yeah, the only thing I'd I don't know, I didn't really have a firm view before we've literally just started this now. But I would say the thing is, unless you're training, so you're going for a run that is more than a marathon, just on your own, you most people don't do that. So they'd enter a if you're entering a race, the race itself will be over 42 kilometres, 26 miles. But probably very well, none of the training runs would be that far. So there will be loads I would say there's loads of trail runners out there who run not on road. To me, that's trail running and fantastic.

Dawn 21:16

Not ultra running.

Becky 21:18

I guess I would say ultra runners are people who enter ultras and an ultra therefore. No, I've only just come up with that now. It's quite awesome. I mean, trail running. So my local running shop used to just have running shoes. Now they've got a whole wall of race vests or trail running vests. Yeah. So trail running itself.

Dawn 21:38

Yeah, that's become a lot bigger. So that's really interesting. I wonder, and people can let us know, are there people out there who are trail runners who regularly go out and run more than a marathon distance on the trails that don't do races? Yeah. That'd be interesting. I don't know. Have you ever done that? Not on a race. No. I've done a uh Well I have over a number of days when me and a friend did the Cornish Coastal Path over Certain Day and done a hundred kilometres, but that No, I've never done that. That's not like No.

Becky 22:10

No, because I'd have been training for a race. So I'm not being an I don't sound like an elitist twat saying you have to be in races, but I trail running is the sport of running on trails, and as we've said, that has grown exponentially and is um really really popular now. And I guess over the six years I've been doing it, as I say, that in it I've seen it in the local running shop that now it's a thing to buy a race vest. And where I live, you know, you see people running a lot now. Did you see that when we first moved here two years ago?

Dawn 22:42

You'd see all those people running around the streets and and I think it very much as well, it depends where you live as well. Like obviously, I live closer to a city and there's much more road runners. We've got a Vizzler in this room and she is snoring. That's not me snoring.

Becky 22:56

So if that's being picked up.

Dawn 22:59

Um Yeah, so it is an interesting question. To me, no, I don't think you have to be. But Yes, so you don't have to be, but are there people out there who do ultra distances?

Becky 23:13

So let's find out that.

Dawn 23:14

Yeah, I definitely don't think you have to.

Becky 23:16

And um, yeah, so I think I think I mean obviously there's hundreds of races now, hundreds of uh race organisers. Um in where I live in the Chilterns, there's loads of little tags left on. They don't they do always glit them up, but you know, you can see when there's going to be a race. Similarly, like recycling, it's often um written on the roads. So that is growing um in popularity. Um so I think I I I think most people would say that ultra running is being actually in a race. And you get you know, it's quite nice to do a race, isn't it?

Dawn 23:51

Well it is. I think the thing is if you think of it from various perspectives, from a safety perspective, yeah. You've got the safety, no, you've got safety, and then also the community around it. Yeah. Um yeah, there's all the benefits of it and just the joy, you know, some running and getting the medal, crossing the finish line, people cheering the ocean.

Becky 24:14

I every every finish line. Do you remember the film Chariots of Fire? Yeah. I do the whole I've got another dog in here now. I do the whole, or was it Eric? No, it not Eric Idle. Eric Eric Liddle. You know, and he did they used to say he wasn't going fast until his head went back. I do the whole. Oh, it's so dramatic. I'm gonna have it, I've got to get make sure someone's gonna be like, and I do that well unless I'm really, really knackered, and then I tend to really sprint down, you know, sort of you get a rush of blood to the head, and it's it and if it's quite busy, I just get it's so emotional. Oh, I do. It's yeah, it's if you are knackered and it's emotional and everyone's cheering, it's lovely. I mean, I don't I don't think the actual physical thing of having a medal is the thing that drives me. No, okay, I've got them downstairs, but it's not like, oh, I want to add to those.

Dawn 25:03

Yeah, I so I I haven't got the my medal from Gobi. I don't think I've got it out of the bag yet.

unknown 25:08

No.

Becky 25:08

And some races, like the most famous race in the world, UTMB, you don't get a race. Uh sorry, you don't get a medal.

Dawn 25:14

Really?

Becky 25:14

What you get a jerkin. You get a zip-up, a zip-up. Jerkin! A jerkin is a word from the 1940s. I don't know why you use that.

Dawn 25:23

So funny. What are they called? A jerkin. That I can say sleeveless zip-up thing. Yeah, it's not a jerkin, it's called jerkin then. That's so the wrong word. It's called a It's like a body warm. Uh Gilet. Gilet, that's a gilet. A girkin. Gherkin is something you use.

unknown 25:45

I don't know.

Becky 25:46

Anyway, whatever. Yeah. Um actually in one race in France, I got a bar of soap and a really nice glass maybe because I won it. I didn't win it, but a really nice glass um thing. Oh, yeah. And then I left it in the hotel.

Dawn 26:02

I had a message um on Instagram the other day about, or I saw it, a lady on Instagram who'd done a lovely hundred-mile race and she said uh sorry, a 50k race. It was her, it was, I don't think it was her first ultra, but she said there were so many first timers there. And for every first timer, they got a plaque. Wow. So I must, I will put that in the show notes. I'll I'll have to have a look. I'll put it in the room. Because everyone's gonna sign up for the first timer. I think when you sign up they ask, is this your first ultra? So you could just say that every time you get a plaque. But she said the whole support and everything was brilliant. So yeah, things like that are good. Um Back in the day we didn't get that when I started six years ago. No. You just you won't even notice. No.

Our First Races And Overdoing It

Becky 26:48

But I think for me, I when I first got into it, I got really excited about the sort of number of races, and I did use to keep a little log of all the races I was doing, and I would plan them a year a year in advance, and I would plan probably six in a year. I know, I just saw your face.

Dawn 27:06

This is another thing.

Becky 27:10

Rookie error. So now, I mean, so my first race was race to the stones, which is 100k. And the reason I did it was a a friend of mine called Sally um said that she was gonna do it with some friends as a sort of a walk. Um, and you could stop at 50k, you still can, you can stop at 50k. And she said, I should do it. So I looked at the website and I said, Well, I can't do the 100k, and I really like the look of the tents. Have you ever seen it? They do all these little rows of tents, and that really appealed to me. So I signed up for that, and then I think she then that was when she said, No, you'll you'll get really bored, you know, you'll finish quite early, and then you'll be sitting at this um campsite. So then I switched it to the 100k. Need to say, Sally never actually did it. Um and that's the one that I did with the four-hour stops for the best stuff. Well, I just thought you sort of took your shoes off and you know, relaxed and they had deck chairs and stuff. Yeah. Um, but uh yeah, that was my first one.

Dawn 28:07

So I didn't get a plaque. No, and then you got into doing, would you say, too many?

Becky 28:12

Yes, and then that was the I can't remember, it was 21, 22. By 2023 was when I went a bit nuts and I did uh six in a year. Right, that's and then yeah, and I got really bad, read some fatigue. That's a subject for another story, but another time. Um, but I, you know, and then I took when I was doing these ultras, a then friend of mine mentioned that her friend's husband was doing the spine, and I didn't even know what the spine was, and I then went off and looked at that and got into that. Not the full race, but that's another load of kit to buy. I mean I did, I tend to get quite absorbed in a new hobby.

Dawn 28:51

Right. And I did get quite absorbed. So you have stuck to this.

Becky 28:54

I have stuck to it. I've run out of things to buy because I've got various versions of everything. But there's a lot to you. My wife said to me, she goes, You've got a hell of a lot of kit for a very simple sport.

Dawn 29:05

Yeah.

Becky 29:05

I said, Shut up, you do cycling.

Dawn 29:07

Yeah, that's right, yeah. That's it. They need a lot of kit. So which was your first race? My first trail race was uh the one in Cornwall. The one, the white rat. White rather trail. So I crewed a runner at the Arch of Attrition. Have you heard of that?

Becky 29:27

Yes, I had a place in that. Oh right.

Dawn 29:28

I didn't do it. Yeah, really. So I crewed a runner at one of my.

Becky 29:32

It's just a horrible time of year, it's January, and you think you're gonna train all the way through December and Christmas, and then you don't.

Dawn 29:37

And it is on the peninsula of Cornwall, so you get the worst of the weather.

Becky 29:40

I know, I've I've run that bit, seven code round there. Yeah, I've and my friend, oh that Sally again actually has a has a cottage there, so I'd booked in to stay. And I've done that during the summer.

Dawn 29:51

It's bloody scary. Yeah. So I ran, I I crewed the client there at that race, and that was what made me really fall in love with the trail running community. So I and I look that race company was just amazing. Does the race still go? No. I don't know. I need to check it out because they didn't cut they cancelled it last year, they didn't do it last year. It's so Arch Futrician is, but it's been bought out by UTMB. Yeah. So then so they so I was I crewed this race and I was just blown away by the coastal path, but I thought never. And you did this in January? No, I no. The thing was so this race, January on the coastal peninsula, 100 miles, definitely not for me. That isn't summer, but I thought I'd like to do something about this. So I looked at the race company and found out they do did a summer one, a summer series called the Roseland August Trail Series. And it was you it started from 11 miles right up to 100. The one at 100 started at midnight, and it was cool sort of like bring out your dead. And they started it with the grim reaper. Oh, that's right. It was really funny. But the whole community around it was amazing. So that was my first proper trail race. That's quite a full-on one. I went for a nice flat one at all the ridgeway. Yeah, but that's when I really so I loved it. And what was the distance? 11 miles. Yeah, but that's silkwise, I go in kilometres, so it was but actually it ended up being about half m a half marathon distance. So it was like 20. I think it was 20 odd kilometres.

Becky 31:11

But 20 kilometres on the Cornish coastal path. I'd rather do 100k on the Ridgeway.

Dawn 31:16

Really? So this was and I thought, well, this will be fine, but the big eye-opener for that was I wasn't strong enough for all the ups and downs. Right. That's when I started doing my strength work. Um, and but it j I did love it. Yeah, it was beautiful that was, and the race company itself was.

Becky 31:31

See, I would like to do Archivetrician because um and I booked a place, and then I forget all the different years, but I booked a place because it was a UTMB trying to get the stones. Yeah. And then and I think I only booked so you know UTMB have the different categories. Yeah. And as we discussed last week, they're they're very wayward with their you know, there can be a 50k race, but it's 62. I think it was the 20k race, but it was something like 29 or something like that.

Dawn 31:59

That was a bit like UTS. It was a 20k race, but it wasn't something like that.

Becky 32:03

But um I'd like to go back. I just I I I know somebody who did, and he's done lots of ultras, and he said it was the scariest thing to the point where he thought, I'm gonna get swept off this cliff face.

Dawn 32:14

It was really, really yeah, it was a really tough race. I remember at one point just thinking how how they do it. And at the end of it, this is the bit that I can never get over. Um, at the very towards the end, they've got, you know, how they have these steps in Cornwall where you're climbing up, right? With like you've done 99 miles and then you've got these like thousand steps to the finish. That's so many. And it's just like yeah, it's like at the end of the um DNFing being so it was just yeah, it was it was yeah, but I'm sorry about it and the camaraderie with the people and the whole race company I love. So that's one thing that I loved. At the moment, I'm thinking about as a race in the new forest, I'm thinking of doing in September, but it's just gonna I'm not gonna do it unless my body feels right. I'm sick of doing races and dragging my body around. Yes. So I can enter this at the last minute. It's only it's a half marathon. Lovely. Yeah. Um yeah.

Becky 33:10

Well, I wanted to get I was wondering whether to book something in on the back of me being nice and fit for OCC, and I was looking at you've reminded me because you've talked about the uh Cornish Coast Path. There's a nice maverick one down on the Jurassic Coast. Oh right. Um but uh I I thought about it. See, I'm much more considered now. I used to be like really, really gung ho, so I've got two dogs in here now and they're growling at each other. Um but um yeah, I I know what I'm doing next year. I've booked the South Downs Way 100. Oh right. So that's so this goes full back to what we were saying um about the Lake District 100, the Lakeland 100. I've done the 50 of that. I would like to do the 100. I've only ever done one hundred-mile race, and that was the A100, which was the in and out of Goring 25 Mila, where I got told to leave the checkpoint. So I'm gonna do another hundred that's undulating and then try in the you know, hopefully get through the ballot next summer, uh not next summer, the summer after, for the Lakeland 100. So next year, South Downsway, middle of June, Centurion, uh South Downsway 100. And actually, I say it's an undulating course, it is 3,500 metres of climbing. Which I know it's weird, isn't it? So that's that's the same as my Alps race this summer, but over the course of 100 miles as opposed to over 64k.

Dawn 34:41

So, yeah, and that's the other thing. Since like we went running locally to you the other day, it was like I need to come and do a race over this way because I just I love this is my sort of trails. Like just undulating and the rolling hills and the landscape. That's my sort of racing.

Becky 34:57

Well, I'll tell you what, James Elson can thank me for doing a sales picture here, the race you should do, Dawn. And it literally comes across that field and pointing out the window and goes past there is a hundred hills, Centurion Hundred Hills 50K in March. And I've booked that one as well for this two years. So I'm doing that and I'm doing the and then that's a nice because I've always got this thing of if you do a 50k before a hundred miler, that's a nice training run to the. Coming back to what you said, does anyone do a training run?

Dawn 35:27

Yeah.

Becky 35:27

For see, I would say people do do training runs of opening. They're actually racing. They're actually racing. Yeah, that's nearly everything. Because you get a medal for it. But now, since having the fatigue and the reds, uh I'm almost a bit too sort of careful of like you can argue it both ways. Doing that 50k is nice training for the 100 miler, or by the time I come to June and do the 100 miler, I've got that 50k in my legs. This is the phrase we use in my legs.

unknown 35:57

Yeah.

Dawn 35:58

Oh yeah. It's like I know my endurance has improved since doing Gobi, and I can tell that. So I've got this where I can just keep going, and I want to jump on the back of that because I've got that, you know, in my legs, so I want to keep going. And it's I have entered a 50k for next April. Is that the one in your Yorkshire? Yeah. So the March 100 Hills would be too so close to that, really.

Becky 36:20

It's tricky, isn't it?

Dawn 36:21

Yeah, but I need to find something. I would like to maybe start with, I don't know, some sort of half marathon distance around here or 20k. There's loads, Maverick do some. Right.

Becky 36:30

So the other thing about races, of course, is that we learn from them. We get become better runners, don't we? So, um, I mean, that first race I ever did. Do you want to hear one of my biggest race mistakes? So it's 100k, which is basically just over two marathons. I can run a marathon in four hours. And I thought, well, I and I was literally handing my drop bag in to be taken to the end. And I thought, well, it says to bring a head torch, but hang on a minute. We're starting at like 7 30 in the morning. I'll be done before it's dark. You had before you That's what I thought. You leave your drop bag. I tried I won't need the head torch. I've I I confidently thought I'll be done before it's dark. I finished at 2 30 in the morning. So, you know, that's that's another reason for doing races, isn't it? It's uh all the little things that you learn on each race.

Dawn 37:22

Oh, totally. Yeah, totally.

Helping First Timers Feel They Belong

Becky 37:25

Right, so Dawn, you said to me earlier that we had some questions from some of our people who've interacted with us.

Dawn 37:34

Yeah, some people that have asked some questions. So I've got one lady here who uh has asked, a lot of women can run a marathon but look at ultras and think that's for a different type of runner. What would you say to someone who loves trails but doubt they have what it takes to go beyond 26.2 miles? For me, I love running several times a week and I'm training for road marathons. I love the feeling of being out on the trails, but ultras still feel intimidating. What would you say if I'm standing on the edge of the decision and wondering, do I belong in the ultra world?

Becky 38:08

Well, she definitely does belong in the ultra rod. Everyone belongs there, there's no one who doesn't belong in the ultra rod. And I would say, I've always got to ask this, you know, do you run all the way? Or I could never run that far. The big thing about ultras is that you, you know, if you if you do care what other people think, you're not running down a road in London or Amsterdam or wherever you're doing your marathon, and people are watching you and clapping you, and you've got to sort of typically stay at the same pace for every kilometre or mile that you're monitoring. You can do what you like. Yeah. You know, you can do, you can, I mean, tend to walk up the hills, you know, have a chat with someone. You know, I drove my last coach, it was a triathlon coach, nuts, because I said, Oh, I was on the South Downs Wave 50, and I had a chat with a woman for an hour. We just walked along chatting. It's like, but it's a race.

Dawn 38:52

I said, Oh well, you know, I was enjoying it. And that's it. And if you think about it, so an ultra is how many more kilometres than a marathon? Eight. Eight more kilometres. So, Cheryl, you can do it.

Becky 39:05

If you can do it's easier to run walk 50k in the hills than it is to run a marathon. You know, basically, most people are doing a marathon. They're running as fast as they can over a long distance for a long time. For example, I would rather do a hundred-mile race. I mean that that is gruelling. Okay, let's say a 50k ultra than do a half marathon. The last time I did a half marathon at Dorney Lake, which is the flattest flat place where they do the Olympic rowing, it was hideous because it's fast, but it's 13 miles.

Dawn 39:38

But you're pushing that vastness all the time. You don't get the unpleasant experience. Yeah, so I would say definitely you do belong in the ultra world. And choose a race that is has got either no cut-offs or is definitely no cutoffs to be the first one. Long, really, really long.

Becky 39:54

There's loads that are marketed, like near me, there's the Goring Gap Ultra. There'll be loads near you that are marketed as entry entry ones. And by that they just mean super friendly, you know, they're all friendly anyway, no cut-offs, uh, lots of beginner races, you know, and you'll see people at these races, some people with big backpacks, some with racing vests, you know, there's no getting it wrong.

Dawn 40:18

No, you know, just enjoy. And that's it. And the in fact you had an idea about that, Becky, where we were talking about wouldn't it be nice to have somebody who is aiming for their first ultra that we could get involved in. On the call, yeah, on the call. On the call. Give us a call.

Becky 40:33

Yeah, nice idea. If anyone is doing their first ultra and wants to be part of this podcast and just, you know, perhaps give us an update every month with how they're getting on.

Dawn 40:42

Yeah.

Becky 40:43

Um, we'd love that. That'd be a nice little feature too.

Dawn 40:45

It would, yeah. That would be interesting. One other quick question, because I know we've been chatting on a long, long time, is lovely another lady called Lisa has asked, what mindset tip would you give for somebody doing their first altrua?

Becky 40:59

That's your specialist subject, don't you?

Dawn 41:01

Um Trust yourself. Trust the process of what you've prepared for. That's the thing. And manage your expectations.

Becky 41:13

Oh, I'm gonna have trust, trust yourself. Trust yourself a little card where I have inspired.

Dawn 41:17

So trust yourself and manage your expectations. So, and this is where, in fact, I'll put it as well in the show notes. There's a really good podcast I listened to lately about choosing a race, and it says about matching your expectations to what you want to do and fitting it into your lifestyle.

Becky 41:32

Which you didn't do when you booked Kinder Scout.

Dawn 41:35

Okay, okay, all right. But that is it. Trust yourself, trust the process.

Becky 41:40

Good. Well, I think that's enough for this week,

Reviews, Follows, And Farewell

Becky 41:43

Dawn. Um, thank you for everyone for listening. Thank you for your follows on Instagram and old-fashioned Facebook. Um, it's it's really great if you can leave a review. We're really grateful it helps, apparently, doesn't it, Dawn? With all the metrics.

Dawn 41:55

If we can have yeah, any follows, leaving reviews, that'd be really helpful.

Becky 42:00

Thanks very much, everyone. Keep running and enjoy the trails. Bye. Bye.